A Conversation with Vanessa Hua, by Swetha Amit
Date: September 30, 2022
Introduction: Vanessa Hua is an award-winning columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle and the author of the national bestsellers A River of Stars and Forbidden City, and Deceit and Other Possibilities—a New York Times Editors’ Pick. A National Endowment for the Arts Literature Fellow, she has also received a Rona Jaffe Foundation Writers' Award, the Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature, and a Steinbeck Fellowship in Creative Writing, as well as awards from the Society of Professional Journalists, and the Asian American Journalists Association, among others. She appeared in publications that include the New York Times, Washington Post, and The Atlantic. She has taught, most recently, at the Warren Wilson MFA Program, the University of San Francisco, and the Sewanee Writers Conference. She is the daughter of Chinese immigrants, and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her family.
What inspired Forbidden City?
About a decade and a half ago, I watched a documentary about China and up popped a photo of Chairman Mao surrounded by giggling teenage girls. It turned out he was fond of ballroom dancing. He partnered with a troupe of young women not only on the dance floor, but also in the bedroom. In 1937, an American journalist, Agnes Smedley taught him and other party elites how to dance, and over the decades he continued to have these dance parties. The Chairman's physician wrote a memoir and used a dismissive tone to describe the young women, saying the experience was “exhilarating,” the greatest honor of their lives. I knew the story had to be more complex than that, particularly for those who became his confidantes, handled his mail correspondence, and interpreted what he was saying when his speech became garbled. They were able to stay by his side, during the most tumultuous time in modern Chinese history. I tried to find out more information. I initially wrote a short story set in one of those dance parties, and then something compelled me to keep going. What I couldn't find explained in official records, I wanted to attempt in fiction.
In your earlier book, A River of Stars, you used the third person, whereas in Forbidden City, you chose the first person. What made you decide to tell the story from the point of view of Mei in Forbidden City?
Forbidden City is the first book I wrote and the third book I published. I began writing it in grad school, as a short story in the third person, but I realized that I had to use the first person to access her interiority. By comparison, A River of Stars is in the third person and in early drafts, I had many more points of view, akin to Jennifer Egan’s A Visit from the Goon Squad. But after revisions, it was mainly told from Scarlett's point of view.
A large part of Forbidden City highlights the Cultural Revolution, which would have required a lot of research. How did you go about the process?
I spent fourteen years on the book as there was a long and winding road to publication. During that time, I conducted interviews in China and traced part of the path Mei would take across the country. I also became a power user of the library and read a lot of memoirs and nonfiction historical accounts. Historians have a particular purpose and intent in documenting what happened; novelists tend to focus more on how it felt to live through those events. I also read a lot of newspapers from that era. I didn’t take copious notes that I cross-referenced but if something inspired me along the way, I would include it in the narrative.
You come from a journalism background, and while writing a fictional narrative of the Cultural Revolution, how did you avoid this journalistic aspect while telling this story?
I remember workshopping the early part of the novel during my first semester in my MFA program. One of my classmates called it “reportage.” I was annoyed! Eventually, I understood that while journalism claims neutrality, fiction is filtered through the distinct consciousness of the character. Anything Mei encountered—whether it's the setting or recreation of historical events—is via her sensibility.
You write short stories as well. How was the experience of transition to long fiction?
I have been writing short stories ever since I was a kid. In second grade, my teacher asked the class to vote for the best story, and mine won. That was my first recognition, even though a classmate said she voted for mine only because it was the longest! So, it was also my first snarky review. I continued writing short stories throughout school and college. In my early thirties, when I was at a reporting fellowship in South Korea, I told another journalist I wanted to write a book. She said, “Then write a book.” She was merely making small talk, but that's when I realized I had to center that goal in my life. The difference between a novel and a short story is that a short story feels closer to a poem in terms of how it rests on an emotion, a turn. There’s a feeling of the world continuing after a short story, whereas a novel is a 300-page journey. There’s a sense of completion.
Forbidden City has a lot of themes like coming of age, friendship, love, and historical significance. Do you consciously think of themes while writing a story?
For me, my understanding of the themes doesn’t emerge until after I finish the first draft. I’m focused on the characters and it’s only in retrospect, when I’m looking at the book as a whole, that I figure out the themes which in turn can help guide my revision. I've always written where my interest lay, and my characters lead me, which may end up reflecting the zeitgeist upon publication. Readers and reviewers have remarked that my books are timely.
Forbidden City was published shortly before the Roe vs. Wade decision was overturned. Even though the novel is set during the Chinese Cultural Revolution, it resonates with the present because of its focus on female bodily autonomy.
You mention reviewers. While getting positive reviews is gratifying, how do you deal with the negative ones?
I get a good friend or my husband to look at them first. I don't even look at Goodreads or Amazon reviews. I also realize that my book is not for everyone and should not please everyone. But I hope that my book will reach someone at the right moment, resonate with them, and make them feel less alone.
How do you balance writing fiction and journalism? Tell us more about your writing process.
I like being able to do both. With nonfiction, the deadlines are on a weekly or monthly basis, whereas a novel takes years. So, writing nonfiction helps me get out in the world and interact with people in the community by interviewing them. Since I have a deadline, I can plan, think, and work around a strategy for it. With fiction, I must consciously map out the next few steps I need to take. I read my manuscript and sometimes listen to the draft via an app on my phone. This is to ensure I keep the world of my novel in my head as I progress with it.
So, do you like writing stories or articles more?
That's like asking who my favorite child is! I think both nourish me and nourish my practice of the other. I'm just happy to have the opportunity to do both.
How do you overcome writer's block?
It's good to have more than one project going so that when you struggle with one, you can cheat on it with another. I have also come to realize things like going for a swim or a run are essential to writers' practices. In fact, I figured out the ending for A River of Stars while I was on a swim. I was trying to figure out the ending, and I remember getting out of the pool and texting myself the solution. You can't access your subconscious directly. It is only when your body is in motion that sometimes answers come to us. Making room for movement in your life can release things.
Who are the authors who inspire you?
Maxine Hong Kingston (Author of The Woman Warrior) graciously wrote a blurb for my book. I am blown away by her generosity and by what she does for the community. Not just through her writing but also through her activism. I remember I had an opportunity to interview her a few years ago. She said that as an activist, you keep going. You don't know if your work is going to matter. Maybe someone 200 years ago did something that's made things possible for you. So, we have no idea how our actions may benefit someone in the future.
You touched upon the subject of memory earlier. What is your favorite childhood memory?
Well, maybe riding around on a car trip and reading jokes to my family. That coziness of all of us cramped in a car together, laughing, is a pleasant memory.
What is the most exciting job you have ever had?
I've been a journalist since I graduated from college. Even in college, I wrote on the school paper. Being a journalist has afforded me fascinating opportunities, such as reporting from overseas and visiting several countries.
What are the places you've been to?
I've been to Burma, Panama, China, South Korea, Ecuador—and even Burning Man!
What is it you want readers to take away from Forbidden City?
I believe the past is never as distant as it seems. Even though this novel is about the Cultural Revolution in China, it's an opportunity to not only learn about that era but also examine our own era. Sometimes you need to look back to understand our present.
What's the weirdest writing habit you have?
I got this last year. It's basically an under-the-desk bike peddler. Whenever I am revising or answering emails, I pedal away. It's nice to do as it's something that gets me going. Besides that, I also enjoy my cups of hojicha tea.
Lastly, any upcoming books?
I am working on two projects. One is a novel about surveillance and suburbia. And the other is an essay collection about foraging, resilience, and survival. I'm working on the draft for both, but excited to be in this process.
Author of her memoir, A Turbulent Mind-My journey to Ironman 70.3’, Swetha Amit is currently pursuing her MFA at University of San Francisco. She has published her works in Atticus Review, JMWW journal, Oranges Journal, Gastropoda Lit, Full House literary, Amphora magazine, Grande Dame literary journal, Black Moon Magazine, Fauxmoir lit mag, Poets Choice anthology, and has upcoming pieces in Drunk Monkeys, Agapanthus Collective, The Creative Zine, and Roi Faineant Press. She is one of the contest winners of Beyond words literary magazine, her piece upcoming in November. She is also, alumni of Tin House Winter Workshop 2022 and the Kenyon Review Writers’ workshop 2022. Twitter: @whirlwindtotsInstagram @swethaamit